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Clean EUkip up NOW make UKIP electable!
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The corruption of EUkip’s leadership,
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True Believers
It’s worth reading Garrison Keillor’s hilarious book “Lake Wobegone Days”,
if only for the very perceptive chapter on the small protestant
denomination in which he was raised. I recognise the scenario, as I was
raised in a rather similar one. Such groups are riven with
factionalism and schism. Each faction has some slightly different (but
vital) alternative interpretation of Holy Writ, and the divisions become
smaller and smaller, even within families, until you have the
impression that each adherent is convinced that he is the only true
believer, and that all the others are suspect one way or another.
Sadly, the Eurosceptic movement in Britain is rather similar. Too
many eurosceptics spend their time sniping at each other, rather than
turning their guns on the real enemy, which in this case is Brussels.
I was alerted by my indomitable press officer Neelam Cartmell to a
web-site called Autonomous Mind, which appears to be of the UKIP
persuasion, and has a host of contributors eager to attack Conservative
Eurosceptics who clearly (in their terms) are not Eurosceptics at all,
but part of a great Tory plot to burnish sceptical credentials whilst
pursuing an integrationist policy. Autonomous Mind (AM), by the way, is
said to “disdain Nigel Farage” — illustrating my point about
factionalism and schism.
AM had published an “Open letter to Roger Helmer MEP”, which had attracted some angry comment. But at least Mr. AM invited me to respond — so I did. You may be amused by some of my replies.
Bellvue alleged that Roger Helman (sic) MEP was a cowardly shit.
“I recognise neither the name Roger Helman, nor the appellation
“cowardly shit”, so I think you must be engaged in a different
conversation”.
Brian H asserted that all politicians were liars:
“Unlike George Washington, I would not claim that I’d never told a lie.
But I would say that I have never knowingly dissembled about any
political question: indeed if you had followed my career you would know
that I am in constant trouble for too much straight talking”.
David Phipps insisted we all knew that repatriation (of powers from Brussels) would never happen:
I certainly don’t “know that repatriation will never happen”. There
is a head of steam building up in the parliamentary party. It has been
commented on by, amongst others, Tim Montgomerie, who has his ear to the
ground. We now have the European Union Act which prescribes a
referendum in specific circumstances. Those circumstances could arise
with the proposed new arrangements for a euro-debt-union. I don’t think
Cameron can move at this stage without upsetting the Coalition — and
therefore the fiscal recovery plan. But he could do so before the next
election.
Jeremy Poynton asks “Exactly who do you represent?”. I
think you mean “whom”. I represent about 4.2 million people in the
East Midlands, and I have been elected top of the list on three
successive occasions — ‘99, ‘04, ‘09. I think my democratic legitimacy
probably exceeds that of most correspondents to AM.
Patrick Harris asks why politicians don’t sue the European Commission for breaches of EU law:
I think your answer is that there is no realistic hope that the
European Court of Justice would ever hand down a ruling opposed to
European integration. A court action would be a huge waste of time and
money. But of course if you think you have a case — there’s nothing to
stop you bringing an action.
Jones “Do you at least agree that commentators on this blog have a point?”: Indeed. Many of the commentators have a point. But I’m not sure that they have a strategy.
Uncle Badger rants: “Antipathy to the EU is rife …. If you are not willing to represent that view….”.
What do you imagine I have been doing for the last twelve years? I’ve
been expressing my antipathy to the EU in blogs, newsletters, Tweets,
(@RogerHelmerMEP), web-sites; press releases, books, DVDs; on radio and
TV; in the Conservative Party and in the European parliament! You might
check your facts before sounding off. And you might note my earlier
comments: too many Eurosceptics spend their time attacking each other,
not attacking Brussels.
AM is said to disdain Nigel Farage: Sorry to hear that you regard Nigel Farage with disdain. I have a lot of time for him. A good guy.
John Payne argues that European integration in the Conservative Party is driven by the Whips:
Interested by your theory that EU integration is driven by the Whips.
Last time I checked, the Chief Whip was Patrick McLoughlin MP — he’s on
my patch and I certainly don’t see him as a fifth column for Brussels.
Finally, they ask, why do some eurosceptics in Westminster
occasionally appear to support some integrationist measures? Is it
better to seek to move the Conservative Party in a Eurosceptic direction
over time (which implies some compromise with Party policy), or to make
one grand
kamikaze gesture which rules you out of the action ever after, even though it gains the applause of Autonomous Mind?
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Comment by Sue August 29, 2011 @ 1:18 pm
Pingback by Roger Helmer dismisses criticism and covers for faux Tory Eurosceptics « Autonomous Mind August 29, 2011 @ 2:50 pm
I am quite sure there are many politicos who would like to get t as strong a vote as there was for a poll held by You Gov in favour to get out of Europe.
I never hear from any of you in power that convinces me what if any benefits we get from this fradulent body that the money we give could not be spent better here, in rebuilding this country.
Comment by maureen gannon August 29, 2011 @ 3:20 pm
Comment by rjhmepRoger helmer MEP August 30, 2011 @ 5:52 am
Comment by Richard North August 30, 2011 @ 9:02 am
Comment by Ross J Warren August 29, 2011 @ 3:53 pm
All we want is what we are entitled to. To be given a referendum. In or Out.
Anyone denying the British people that right, does not believe in the democratic process and any politician who advocates denying us that right, should not be in the British Government.
Comment by Sue August 29, 2011 @ 7:27 pm
Comment by rjhmepRoger helmer MEP August 30, 2011 @ 5:54 am
Comment by Goodnight Vienna August 29, 2011 @ 3:57 pm
Comment by Richard North August 29, 2011 @ 4:52 pm
Comment by rjhmepRoger helmer MEP August 30, 2011 @ 5:55 am
Comment by Richard North August 30, 2011 @ 9:05 am
do you honestly believe your rhetoric and sales puff Helmer?
Richard is right.
Please tell us all of your actual achievements to extract these United Kingdoms from the malign grasp of The EU as a vassal region.
Minded of just how much in bribes and expenses you have achieved you do talk some total self serving venal twaddle!
But then again The Judas Goat is worth a great deal to the slaughter house.
Regards,
Greg_L-W.
Comment by Greg_L-W. August 30, 2011 @ 11:59 am
I’ve fought our membership for over 25 years, and I’ve heard the same old tired words year in year out – “that the Tory party is eurosceptic, that voting Tory will help more eurosceptic MPs into Westminister etc etc”. All of it has proven to be completely untrue of course.
The Tories have been the most europhile party in history; they took us in on a lie (supported by Thatcher) passed the Single European Act, shadowed the ERM which led to the 90s recession, joined the ERM, passed the Maastricht, gave away our armed forces in the mid 90s to the EU and so on.
In my experience, when we get a Tory Government EU integration gets faster and goes further – a point you acknowledged yourself Roger:
http://conservativehome.blogs.com/platform/2011/06/by-rogerhelmermep-eu-assurances-overturned-in-weeks.html
Put simply the Tory party wants more EU – its actions prove this time and time again whatever their weasel words try to suggest otherwise. A vote for the Tories is a vote for more EU integration. And I want no part of it.
Comment by TheBoilingFrog August 29, 2011 @ 4:53 pm
Comment by Derek August 29, 2011 @ 8:20 pm
If, however, the essential definition requires a determination to leave the EU, then membership of the Conservative Party is incompatible with being a eurosceptic.
Further, it is not wise to assume that withdrawal will be achieved through or by a political party. Most fundamental changes are driven by movements, outside the party political machinery, with the political parties reacting to outside pressure rather than initiating the changes.
As such, it is important that eurosceptics should not compromise by being members of any parties which, quite clearly, do not share their values.
Comment by Richard North August 29, 2011 @ 9:09 pm
Comment by maureen gannon August 31, 2011 @ 9:57 pm
which is where that body wish to take us , with their Transaction tax European Maritime policy, the destruction of Royal Mail http://ec.europa.eu/internal_market/post/index_en.htm
.none of this is ever reported in our media nor our government announcing the true reasons for what they do.
I just want out, Iceland has done it her own way has now a robust economy, so please don’t anyone tell me this country cannot stand on her own feet.
Comment by maureen gannon August 31, 2011 @ 10:14 pm
Comment by maureen gannon August 31, 2011 @ 10:18 pm
More than 50% of the population are in favour of leaving the EU.
Joining an uninfluential level of a party with a record of deceit (vide “Cast Iron Promises”) would be a delusional course of action.
Tory Party delenda est
Comment by Dead Dog Bounce August 30, 2011 @ 8:17 am
The main point is that we have people who have chuntered away for years, telling us theirs is the way forward, yet achieving nothing. Then we see them voting in faviour of the very things they tell the electorate they are against.
The Conservative Party is not democratic. Once elected there is no way to influence or direct its leader. He walks a pro-EU path as PM and the country sinks further into closer union.
Those in the Conservative Party with the real power do not want us to leave the EU. They allow some dissent, such as that from Roger, but nothing that goes too far for them – such as holding Cameron to account and forcing him out so the members can elect someone else. Not that it would make any difference.
The power brokers hold sway no matter what the members want or think, which is why so many have turned away from the party and left politics. The party, like the country, exists in a feudal system where a clique call the shots and the rest are ignored on the sidelines.
Comment by Autonomous Mind August 30, 2011 @ 8:56 am
any of those should give us the promised referendum I admit to being duped , the man is slick of tongue much like the snake oil sellers in the wild west . well he won’t suck me in again and there are many like me .
Comment by maureen gannon August 29, 2011 @ 8:52 pm
the true looters are the very politicians who draw their huge bribes (the pretend it is a salary for work when they do none of consequence!), fiddle their expenses, defend their drinking chums when caught.
Look at the serried ranks of bloated over paid Local Government parasites, QUANGO chiefs and Government advisers (brothers in law etc.) and meeeja consultants.
These are the true looters OUR-ENEMY-WITHIN whilst yet more serried ranks of Judges, politicians, vicars, teachers, BBC staff, social service workers and the like who when convicted AND FOUND GUILTY of child abuse walk free!
Is the abuse of children nothing more than a perk of Government employment?
Even the likes of Roger Helmer might care to tell us all what actual achievements he has to his name as a Politician, in return for the many £Millions he has accepted as funding/bribes from the scam.
Regards,
Greg_L-W.
Comment by Greg_L-W. August 30, 2011 @ 3:59 am
this is of course the chap who defended Tom Wise and his criminality, publicly attacking me for my temerity in exposing the fraud and embezzling by his drinking chum. Just as did UKIP leadership in ever more dishonest terms – Nigel Farage even lied on TV to protect Tom Wise and himself.
Where does Patriotism enter into such self interest?
Some may remember when drinking in a pub in Belgium, with a young girl from The NoTW, that Roger Helmer was filmed seeking ways to have his home relocated in mapping terms so that he could claim even more expenses.
This may be the practice within the many globalist corporations for whom he worked prior to moving to politics!
He even admits to 3 terms as an MEP when we have seen not one inch of movement to the exit, but a great deal of self enrichment by the likes of Roger Helmer seemingly with his chums Farage, Tom Wise, Daniel Hannan – all too willing to act as The Judas Goat.
It is hard to differentiate between the levels of betrayal of the huge majority of our MPs and that of almost all of our MEPs and minded of how little they have achieved it is clearly a grossly overpaid job with absolutely no ethics and less integrity required.
Sad that so many lives have been given in defence of our liberty and a huge amount of faith has been placed in our MPs and MEPs who almost to a man seem to have betrayed these United Kingdoms.
The great tragedy is the huge amount of lives this will cost in the wars of disassociation that are increasingly inevitable because of OUR-ENEMY-WITHIN
Regards,
Greg_L-W.
Comment by Greg_L-W. August 30, 2011 @ 4:06 am
I now feel disenfranchised and dissalusioned, I will still go to the voting booth as I know women died for me to do so, and not to be given the label apathetic which I am not, but it will be a spoilt paper untill politico’s learn not just to listen but to hear. what we are saying.
Comment by maureen gannon August 30, 2011 @ 9:21 am
Ms. Gannon is right but also overlooks the skills of The Judas Goat who can dupe the sheep to lead them into the slaughter house.
The goat is well rewarded for betraying the sheep.
We need only look at the proliferation of petitions to see how the Judas Goats will act to seek to undermine the efficacy of a petition on behalf of their real masters viz. Dan Hannan.Mark Glendenning’s copy cat petition when they couldn’t run the original one.
UKIP’s petition out of spite when Nikki Sinclaire’s was having such success.
UKIP launches petitions but has NEVER delivered save it seems money into the accounts of the few!
Now we have a Tory spoiler for the Tory BOO campaign!
The Tories like Labour will tell ANY lie to stay in place they even surrendered power to our competitors/enemies The EEC in return for the pretence of retaining power/income!
Westminster is nothing more than an EU QUANGO.
Like the directors of QUANGOs overpaid as part of the Kleptocracy and of no meaningful value.
The sickening lies of the politicians and their parasites in the pretence they work for us! What unmitigated balderdash!
But The Judas Goat is well rewarded as OUR-ENEMY-WITHIN
Regards,
Greg_L-W.
Comment by Greg_L-W. August 30, 2011 @ 11:54 am
Actions speak louder than words Roger.
Your actions and those of your colleagues tell me everything I need to know.
Comment by rapscallion August 30, 2011 @ 11:54 am
Comment by rjhmepRoger helmer MEP August 31, 2011 @ 6:55 am
However, since the “reform” on which you set out your stall is never going to happen, you have a comfortable sinecure which will keep you happily occupied for the rest of your natural, without actually achieving anything. Your main activity, therefore, is to act as a recruiting sergeant for the Tory Party ,,, which is why you are tolerated.
Comment by Richard North September 1, 2011 @ 11:09 am
So with the EU. There are many factions, as you highlight, but in reality there is only one split. Those who think the EU can be reformed from within and those who have looked at the lessons of history and realise that it is not reformable, as far as its basic tenets are concerned. The split is, in reality, between those that want out (Withdrawalists?) and those that want to work within the EU for change (Europhiles).
I admire much of your work, but feel that you have misunderstood this basic problem. I have heard broken promise after broken promise from the Conservative Party, since their election, to the point where I find the Party almost totally untrustworthy. I’m sure I don’t need to list them here.
You say “Many of the commentators have a point. But I’m not sure that they have a strategy.” That seems to be sadly true but that does not mean that trying to reform the EU from within is not total folly. I don’t find the UKIP Strategy very sensible at the moment, but it is far far better than that of the Conservative Party. The EU will collapse one day as all totalitarian regimes do, so the sooner we are out of it the better.
and “ Is it better to seek to move the Conservative Party in a Eurosceptic direction over time (which implies some compromise with Party policy), or to make one grand kamikaze gesture which rules you out of the action ever after, even though it gains the applause of Autonomous Mind?” Anyone who has studied the history of the EU since 1918, and much of its history is based on between the wars thinking, knows that there is no “Eurosceptic direction”. The choice is IN or OUT, Withdrawlist or Europhile. There is no middle ground.
These points are well worth arguing and discussing. It is just a shame that some resort to personal attacks. That is not necessary.
Comment by Alfred August 30, 2011 @ 12:05 pm
Comment by harry Beckhough August 30, 2011 @ 3:07 pm
how very right Harry – there is no middle way, there is no acceptable reform.
The EU is an obscenity, unlawful, morally repugnant and sadly having sold out to participation our politicians sell out their conciences with cowardly phrases like ‘don’t frighten the horses’ and ‘softly softly catche monkey’ and other gutless irresponsibility.
OUR-ENEMY-WITHIN have betrayed us and will do anything to cover their tracks.
Every hour we remain a party to this squalid construct is a moral cost and an additional day of struggle to reinstate our liberty and any meaningful concept of democracy.
Politicians make much of their legitimacy – yet governments come to power with 22% of the vote.
MPs have almost zero legitimacy MEPs have none – they are professional liars giving legitimacy to corruption in reward for the bribes.
They are The JUDAS GOAT.
They are the LOOTERS stealing from the public in return for their own self serving self important puffed up self importance and self enrichment.
Regards,
Greg_L-W.
Comment by Greg_L-W. August 30, 2011 @ 7:38 pm
We had people who have been proven guilty talking in a condecending way of “These people” [the looters],
I watched the Murdoch debacle unfold with Tom Watson playing the highly moral act, when all I could think of was this man claimed “But I was within the rules maximum £4,800 allowance for food in a single year. From 2005-2009, Watson and Iain Wright claimed over £100,000 on the apartment they share. and my thoughts left the debate and could only think , this is crooks judging crooks.
The Books for Europe have not been audited for years if that was a business the fraud squad would be there looking at the books, as I see it all those living the high life in that body are guilty for allowing this to happen let’s face it Kinnock was paid to sort it out haha he has ended up a Lord on £400 a day attendance money and a millionaire . the books still unaudited and still corrupt.
Comment by maureen gannon August 30, 2011 @ 8:05 pm
here is an interesting message regarding the You Gov Poll commissioned by The Independent MEP Nikki Sinclaire whilst the rest of the MEPs were on holiday and as she presented her Petition for an In/Out EU Referendum having obtained over 100,000 signatures.
Signatures obtained despite the fact of the many Judas Goats urinating on the bushes to try to mark out a territory and save themselves the embarrassment of being shown for indolent self serving, smug, arrogant parasites gorging themselves at the expense of their country with their paid newspaper columns, funded lecture tours and other scams for self enrichment.
I gather the You Gov Poll has been sent to every single Tory MEP who are quite clearly self serving arrogant fools.
NOT ONE was democratically elected they were merely the only choice offered in a corrupt list system.
The message I gave to all Tory MEPs
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 19:40:41 +0200
From: nikki.sinclaire@europarl.europa.eu
To: charles.tannock@europarl.europa.eu; syed.kamall@europarl.europa.eu; marina.yannakoudakis@europarl.europa.eu; martin.callanan@europarl.europa.eu; robert.atkins@europarl.europa.eu; sajjad.karim@europarl.europa.eu; jacqueline.foster@europarl.europa.eu; timothy.kirkhope@europarl.europa.eu; roger.helmer@europarl.europa.eu; emma.mcclarkin@europarl.europa.eu; philip.bradbourn@europarl.europa.eu; malcolm.harbour@europarl.europa.eu; geoffrey.vanorden@europarl.europa.eu; robert.sturdy@europarl.europa.eu; vicky.ford@europarl.europa.eu; david.campbellbannerman@europarl.europa.eu; daniel.hannan@europarl.europa.eu; richardjames.ashworth@europarl.europa.eu; nirj.deva@europarl.europa.eu; james.elles@europarl.europa.eu; giles.chichester@europarl.europa.eu; julie.girling@europarl.europa.eu; ashley.fox@europarl.europa.eu; kay.swinburne@europarl.europa.eu; struan.stevenson@europarl.europa.eu; james.nicholson@europarl.europa.eu
Dear Colleagues,
I trust you had a good summer break.
You may have missed a YouGov poll that I commissioned a few weeks ago that showed for the first time a clear majority of the UK population (52%) wish to leave the EU with only 30% who would vote to stay in.
The question was independently set by YouGov. Please find attached the YouGov report.
As you embark on your parliamentary work you might wish to consider:
The breakdown from Conservative voters.
74% want a referendum
and
66% would vote to leave the EU.
Regards
Nikki Sinclaire MEP
I trust this is of help to readers in the couse of identifying The Judas Goats that betray us in The Tory Party – OUR-ENEMY-WITHIN.
We still await the exact details of achievement towards LEAVING The EU that Roger Helmer claims for all his huff and puff and arrogant, smug self satisfaction.
EXACTLY what has YOUR Total failure cost the tax payers in bribes/salary and expenses for we seem no closer to the exit than when you first opened your EUI accounts and having failed to deliver honestly or competently started to stuff your accounts obtained under false pretences just like your chums elected to Leave-The-EU and minded 66% of ALL Tory voters wish to Leave-The-EU.
It does seem Helmer that you are just another oleaginous and duplicitous Judas Goat.
Indeed as YOU stated:
>>”Seems I just can’t win — except in elections.”<<
May I remind you Helmer YOU did not win an election – Your Party did, you are just a cypher.
Do also be minded that 66% of those votes wish to Leave-The-EU in what way would you claim your party/vehicle has acquitted its duty to the electorate?
Is it any wonder that the society has little but contempt for those looters like yourself and other parasitic fat cats drawing down huge amounts of money in return for their abject failure and thus betrayal.
Regards,
Greg_L-W.
Comment by Greg_L-W. August 30, 2011 @ 10:00 pm
Having read your responses to various people on this blog I see that you believe that the UK should withdraw from the EU. I also note that you believe Mr Helmer, all the Conservative, UKIP, Labour and other MEPs are “Judas Goats” who believe in remaining in the EU and taking it money and con the British electorate. There appears to be, in your view, only one MEP, Nikki Sinclair, who is not in that category ( and hence a true honest etc Withdrawalist). Is this a fair assessment of your view?
Comment by I vow to thee my Country August 31, 2011 @ 4:24 pm
You will note Helmer says:
>>Finally, they ask, why do some eurosceptics in Westminster occasionally appear to support some integrationist measures? Is it better to seek to move the Conservative Party in a Eurosceptic direction over time (which implies some compromise with Party policy), or to make one grand kamikaze gesture which rules you out of the action ever after, even though it gains the applause of Autonomous Mind?<>My actions consist of a dozen years of my life spent largely campaigning against British membership of the EU. Do you have a problem with that?<<
YEP – may I quote Einstein who said 'To keep repeating the same experiment over and over again and expect a different result is a sign of madness'.
A measure of just how much of a spectacular failure you have been is the irrefutable fact that you can lay claim not one single material achievement in a dozen years that has moved us closer to leaving.
Furthermore it is clear from AM's, richard North and your own blog that you have totally failed to convince your own side that you are anything other than a self serving Judas Goat along with Nigel Farage, dan Hannan, Carswell, Eustace and the rest of the parasites feeding from the political troughs – The true Looters in our society!
OUR-ENEMY-WITHIN
Are we to congratulate you all on making a great deal from the public purse yet achieving the sum total of diddly squat!
Is it any wonder politicians are held in such contempt?
Regards,
Greg_L-W.
Comment by Greg_L-W. August 31, 2011 @ 9:22 pm
Comment by Roger Helmer MEP September 1, 2011 @ 6:17 am
Comment by Richard North September 1, 2011 @ 11:13 am
how embarrassing for you and there is even a picture of you.
Your only defence of your behaviour is to attack a voter!
You have over the last 12 years trousered several £Million to act to Leave-The-EU and you have as proven achieved the sum total of nothing in return for your money.
I on the other hand have raised the issue in many areas and deliberately sought to undermine the corruption of politicians like yourself, and have at every opportunity denounced membership of The EU and done all I possibly can to Leave-The-EU and I have not received one penny piece from the public purse for acquitting my duty as I see it.
Now we have a self serving old fraud who has made what to almost all of his electorate is a fortune out of the achievement of absolutely nothing that can be shown to have moved us one inch closer to Leave-The-EU.
If Helmer you lack the integrity to apologise there will be many more who will view you as an outrageous self serving fraud.
Serving an utterly fraudulent system and fraudulently upholding a fraudulent political party – presumably for your continued self enrichment and arrogant puffed up pomposity.
Shame on you.
Regards,
Greg_L-W.
Comment by Greg_L-W. September 1, 2011 @ 3:06 pm
and the answer to my question is?
Comment by I vow to thee my Country September 1, 2011 @ 11:39 am
MEA CULPA
Sorry I missed your question.
The simple answer to your question is NO.
You are wrong, in that I do not believe ALL Tories etc. to be Plastic EUroSceptics nor Judas Goats.
Many are openly declared in their betrayal of these United Kingdoms, our people, our Constitution, our values, our justice system and our future.
Thus clearly they are incapable of fulfilling the role of Judas Goats.
EUroScepticism that has so little understanding as to genuinely seek to fob of the public with the sham belief that the EU can be constructively changed have clearly not read the treaties nor considered the undemocratic nature of the top down committee led dictatorship.
Those that have and still continue with this pretence merely add credibility to the dishonest scam.
I hope this clearly answers your question.
I do look forward to clear answers to the questions Roger Helmer has been asked and clarification of how he is able to refute the claim he is a Plastic EUrosceptic who has been highly paid and has delivered absolutely no visible achievement and in supporting the concept of ‘reform’ within The EU is thus acting as a Judas Goat.
That his ONLY attempt at answering the questions put to him has been to dishonourably obfuscate and attack a voter in fact gives great credence to my assertions.
I do however expect him to be able to round up his many chums and parasites feeding off his EU generated income to be able to tell us all what a wonderfull little chappy he is and how heinous I am.
That is no answer nor justification for his behaviour and merely becomes more convincing.
If you have any further questions please do not hesitate to ask them.
Regards,
Greg_L-W.
01291 – 62 65 62
Comment by Greg_L-W. September 2, 2011 @ 1:14 pm
Comment by Eastmids September 1, 2011 @ 1:10 am
congratulations on attacking the real targets but since you hide your identity no doubt you will forgive us all for not noticing.
You will however note that Roger Helmer is merely, as you put it, a thorn in the side of, frankly for the huge amount of money he has garnered over 12years is the thorn an adequate response.
Particularly a plastic thorn that lends credence to the Tory Party which has absolutely no interest in Leaving The EU despite 66% of its own voters wishing to leave.
For the many £Millions invested in these Plastic EUrosceptics approved by the whips one would expect by now that we would have material progress towards leaving the EU.
In a business world they would have been fired years ago but since this is neither a business world nor a democracy as it functions on protective lists and the dishonest PR system they are likely to be able to remain and play the role of Judas Goats to protect the party and its ambitions to keep its snout in the trough.
Attacking The EU is of course utterly pointlesss as it is structured to ensure it is impervious – far more effective to attack OUR-ENEMY-WITHIN – our own politicians, civil servants and their parasites who are betraying these United Kingdoms.
Regards,
Greg_L-W.
Comment by Greg_L-W. September 2, 2011 @ 1:25 pm
I notice that “goat” has been mentioned with reference to you by several posters. At least, nobody has called you an “old goat”! (Be thankful for small mercies).
I do not think that you are a faux eurosceptic. Rather you have swum against the tide for a number of years and the tide is beginning to turn, not only in the UK but throughout the EU.
The real problem is can we make a credible alternative to the EU that will gain political traction? Leaving the EU tomorrow is a policy similar to solving the energy crisis by inventing a simple, cheap method of turning water into petrol.
How can we disengage from the EU? I find the idea of a two speed EU being supported by George Osborne very significant. Since we are not, and unlikely to become, members of the Eurozone, a process of gradual disengagement is a practical policy – never let a good crisis go to waste. Naturally, we must be seen to fully support the EU as a whole in its moment of crisis, but as members of the slow lane we should gently disengage.
Comment by Richard Saumarez September 1, 2011 @ 10:28 am
please permit me the temerity to correct you.
In the reading of this entire thread, nowhere have I seen anyone call Roger Helmer a “goat” be it young or old.
Regards,
Greg_L-W.
Comment by Greg_L-W. September 2, 2011 @ 1:34 pm
When will you politicians understand that British sovereignty was never yours to give away? Cameron even acknowledged this implicitly when he promised a referendum on the EU Constitution. But such a pledge is worthless if the same document can be kept in substance but simply given a new name.
So you can have a “mass debate” about the finer points of religion and semantics. But after decades of deceit, perhaps you will forgive the rest of us for attaching more weight to substance and to your actions (i.e. how you actually vote) than to your words.
Comment by phil mill September 1, 2011 @ 6:08 pm
how right you are.
It seems that to the question ‘when is a lie not a lie’ it would seem the answer is when it is an untruth told by some liar we fund as a politician!
They even have their own Aesopian word for their dishonesty ‘dissembling’ why when everyone understands it to be a lie?
We currently have a Conservative Government, parasites not withstanding, having resoundingly dumped the crass incompetence and lies of Labour and much of the vote garnered was on the ‘Cast Iron Promise’ by the David Cameron and endorsed by his followers.
The man reneged and even draw succour from Plastic EUrosceptics acting as Judas Goats to lead the sheeple to the slaughter.
Regards,
Greg_L-W.
Comment by Greg_L-W. September 2, 2011 @ 1:32 pm
For instance what thorns will be used to stop our royal post being taken over by either the Dutch or the Germans, what thorn will prevent the EUSSR inflicting their Maritime policy on us,and most importantly what thorn will be used to stop the Transaction Tax? I do hope you can answer me as not one politico has ever given an answer just their normal politic mumbo jumbo.
Comment by maureen gannon September 2, 2011 @ 1:36 pm